Interesting

In written communication so much emotion is lost and thus real understanding.

This 15 minute interview with me and Shannon may help

http://hardlynormal.com/blog/2009/09/16/the-ide...

Recently I was in NYC’s East Village. In 2 hours time 5 groups came and fed homeless people in the park independent of each other. I can only imagine how many feed throughout the day. It’s what we do; we make sandwiches and go feed people. It’s a good deed. I’ve done it. I’ve even orchestrated it. We go back to our warm and secure homes feeling good about our good deed of giving sandwiches, but very little has changed, and in a few minutes someone else will be “providing” another meal in the park. My question - is there something more effective we can do?

5 blocks from that park is a rescue mission and I am sure other homeless service providers are near. These providers help get people housing and jobs so they no longer live in a park. A better use of time and resources is to contact the local homeless service providers and see what they need to help be more effective. Using the 5 groups that came and randomly fed in the park as an example if each one coordinated with the local mission 5 meals would have been provided for and the mission could save on food budget to provide more housing and jobs.

That said, I am NOT saying don’t feed people - I am saying DO NOT go and randomly feed homeless. It has little impact. Work as a team with your community and ALWAYS provide some kind of case management. Trust me, a homeless person would much rather have an apartment than your sandwich.

Angela changed me.

http://invisiblepeople.tv/blog/2009/09/angela-h...

I met her under a bridge in Atlanta. She is ‘at risk’ and is dying under that bridge. After speaking with her I turned to the group I was with and asked what they are doing to help her, they responded and I quote, “we bring her sandwiches”! That’s not enough. We need to do more!

Housing and jobs! If your support level cannot supply housing and jobs support the organizations in your community that can!

Think of it this way. Your family and friends have a car accident. They are dying. Instead of calling 911 you break out the PB&J. Yes, that is a gross exaggeration. BUT people are really dying on the streets and the best we are doing is hand them food!

Again – I am not saying do not feed. I am saying find out who in your community is having an impact fighting homelessness and support them. If that means helping them with food than great! Many shelters have ‘guest chefs’ come in each night to cook the meal. It’s a great way to help and to connect! BUT PLEASE stop being the Lone Ranger! You are just making yourself feel good and honestly hurting other efforts that do have impact!

I didn’t read all of the comments but one suggested that http://InvisiblePeople.tv has had little impact. Point blank: there are people who were homeless who are tonight sleeping inside because of my efforts. There are homeless kids who did not have shoes who now have new shoes. And yes, feeding programs have been started. The impact has been so great it would take me a few hours to list everything! Most importantly thousands upon thousands of incorrect paradigms have been changed. Many people who once thought homeless were ‘bums’ now see us as real people.

Please, before you debate the PB&J issues ask people what they want. Guaranteed majority of people on the streets will NOT say PB&J. PB&J is easy on us and cheap for us to make. These are not our kids. It’s not like they are at summer camp. It is common for us to think what we would like. BUT it’s not camping!
Here is an alternative thought:

Socks!

You start handing out socks and you’ll quickly see how much we overdo it with sandwiches and ignore other basic needs.

Listen to Paul

http://invisiblepeople.tv/blog/2009/10/paul-hom...

Trust me! If you don’t take a sandwich to the park a few other groups will be there to make sure there are lots of sandwiches. No one will be bringing socks!
HUGE NEED!

Underwear! Like socks huge need but difficult since people are different sizes.

Bus Tokens or public transportation passes – HUGE

Calling cards!

Again:
• Socks
• Underwear
• Bus Tokens
• Calling Cards

A good practice is to ask. The best practice is to work within your community as a team.

view this Whrrl story. (made before I met Angela)

http://whrrl.com/experience/story/18162799

great people with huge hearts tried to help a homeless woman. it is a good real example of good intentions are not always the best solution.

want to affect real change in an easy low involvement way try Laundry Love

http://homelessness.change.org/blog/view/featur...

http://www.americancoinop.com/article.cfm?artic...

Mark, thanks for joining in this conversation and sharing from your experience. I really like this response because it helps those of us who aren't familiar with the situation in determining some other positive things we can do. Listing the various needs that people have (socks, tokens, calling cards, etc.) opened up a whole new set of ideas for USEFUL things you can give/do, besides feeding.

This message is for whoever was flagging Mark's comment as spam: don't do that on this blog. I have all comments set to automatically show up, and I don't appreciate it when people knock comments off the page simply because they may not agree with what's being said.

I invited Mark into this conversation specifically so he could share his point of view, and all of us could get to know him better, and hopefully learn something in the process.

It's too bad this conversation has turned a bit sour, I think the original question in the post is pretty interesting. And I think the answer to this question in this case is no.

There are many different theories about how to get people involved in the issue of homelessness. Given Mark's background in TV production, I think it makes a lot of sense that he has chosen to use mass media to dispel myths about homelessness by sharing real, unedited stories of homeless people with the world. Jory John's idea isn't too different; he's using sandwiches to initiate face-to-face interaction.

Both of these guys' efforts are admirable. But at the same time, neither activity is perfect and neither is going to combat the root causes of homelessness. But that's not their goal.

Mark and Jory are doing what they can to people into this issue, opening their eyes, and trying to make them care.

To be honest - I think this is what Mark was getting at with his comment. It's not uncommon that a group will get behind the idea of making sandwiches, enjoy the experience, and become convinced that if they only make enough sandwiches to feed everyone in their city, then they're really doing something remarkable. I think Mark was trying to point out that distributing sandwiches has its place, it's not enough. Getting deeper into the issue of homelessness is absolutely necessary for making a larger impact.

On a side note, it's also not uncommon for advocates working for the same issue to point out the weaknesses in others' plans. It's actually really beneficial for keeping one another in check and being sure that the greater public understands the limitations of these ideas, though admirable they may be.

Sure - there are examples of wrong ways of doing good in the world. But I don't think either of the examples you provide above fall into that cateory.

I regret that it's turned a bit sour as well - I think you're right, Shannon - it's very important to keep in mind that both of these guys are doing good things, in different ways.

And I really like the concept of checks and balances. Everyone has their niche and can participate in a way that's meaningful to them, but it's always good to keep an open mind to other perspectives, and learn from what other people are doing as well.

I agree - in this case, both are positive examples, not negative. And after this discussion, I can honestly say that I've learned a lot about a topic that I knew very little about before, and I will be better equipped to help in an appropriate way when I choose to do so.

Thanks for your thoughts, Shannon.

Feeding hungry people is always wonderful but offering only a sandwich to people without anything beyond that seems like a waste.

My concern about the PBnJ is that it seems to come from a place of assumption. Someone has assumed that everyone needs food (which is accurate in a biological, survival sense) but I would suggest that not everyone living without a home needs a PBnJ. The person to person contact is important and the ability to receive resources is imperative. Making sure that the people who are without a safe, permanent home know about the programs and resources that they can use to move beyond "the streets" is more powerful than you can imagine. People have said it over and over again, knowledge is power (and further to that, empowerment breeds learning).

I understand though, that many people are unable to commit themselves to working with people who are without. It is truly work and there are many organizations dedicated to it. It is for this same reason that a PBnJ afternoon is really appealing to those who want to spend, or only have, an afternoon doing good and then wash their hands of it (literally). I would like to offer an alternative though that is time-wise often less but does require a far more open heart. Give those who are regularly being treated as second class, the benefit of first class. Re-humanize those who are being referred to as "the homelessness problem." Talk to the people around you. Learn their stories. Treat them like a person not a problem. Ask them if they want lunch. Buy them a coffee. Then sit with them. It can even be as simple as saying "Good morning." Smile and make eye contact (as opposed to looking through people who many assume are bound to ask for money). If you do this as a rule and not just as charity, you'll be slowly building a community.

I understand as well that people who have kids or are concerned about safety are completely justified in perhaps not wanting to get to deep into something like that. It is good though to know where some local shelters are to point people in a safe place to sleep for the night. I can tell you though that I, being a girl, have been smiling and chatting with folks by myself with little to no issue. Some people still ask for money or really just don't want to talk. That's their business and I'm happy to respect that.

These are people with problems absolutely but not simply homeless problems to be solved. Please consider that if you want to hand a sandwich to someone and then just walk away.

First, I hate you. (xoxoxo)

Second, to raise debate on the homelessness issue: Will PB&J sandwiches help eradicate homelessness? No. Will it perpetuate homelessness? No. Will there be an increase in the levels of homelessness because people assume that once they're homeless, they'll get a PB&J sandwich? No.

1 - If you're a diabetic on the street, I'm going to guess that you don't necessarily have good health habits (exercise, diet, glucose monitoring) or access to the right medication. What's the bigger problem? Let's solve that first. Educate. Teach. Improve. Monitor. Progress. Perpetuate growth.
2 - Drink water. Lots of people don't drink milk. I don't. I own a cupcake business and I don't sell milk with my cupcakes. (Maybe I should, though...)
3 - Give something more useful. Like a first aid kit? A snuggie? A cell phone? A BMW? What's defined as useful?
4 - Support an organization that's making a difference. And in turn, you have to make sure the organization is using the funds properly. Which takes time, which makes me want to throw in the towel and just slap together a PBJ sandwich for the guy who's always standing at the corner of Western and Congress - because at least that way, I don't have to think about it.
5 - Safety. I'm a girl. I'm maybe a little bit naive. But I know better than to be offering PBJ sandwiches in dark alleys at 10 p.m. to the homeless. Use common sense.

What Mark doesn't realize is that it's not the PBJ sandwich. It's what the PBJ symbolizes - the act of giving, allowing volunteers to experience the joy of serving others. And once you feel that high, it's hard to not want to do it again.

I think your last point is very important. Doing something like this may very well be the first and only volunteer/service project they've ever done. It's a cool cause they heard about through one of their friends on Facebook, and they decided to give it a try. Well, giving it this one little try may open their eyes to a whole world of opportunity that they've never seen before. It could literally change their life . . . and the lives of those that they'll go on to touch.

Well both guys are doing something obviously.

But has Mark actually done anything concrete that has positive results? Talking about an issue doesn't solve it, and lets face it, homelessness probably will never be solved.

The other guy provides food which helps but it will not solve it. Once again, food is an endless need for everyone.

I would submit that Mark has done far more than Jory in terms of concrete actions with positive results. He has opened the eyes of millions of people who may otherwise have never heard or cared.

But does that success give him the right to criticize someone else for doing it in a way that may not be optimal?

They say that "it's the thought that counts."

He may not be working towards solving homelessness, but is that really his goal? No, I think his goal is to make these people's days a little better, and to do something nice.

He's still helping, and in a way that those who are being helped will see it immediately.

Mark does come off as the mother who won't let the kids have cupcakes at a birthday party.

You raise an interesting question about the way Mark "comes off" in his comment. Does it take away from the obvious heart he has for others when you hear him talk like this about what Jory is trying to do? Should one semi-harsh comment on one article be enough to make people see him in a different light? Must we always be on our game every second of every day?

A good point, Nate.

When reading something that someone wrote on the internet, it's hard to understand the tone of voice being set, because there is no voice.

But then again, when you say "Must we always be on our game every second of every day," are you talking about John or Mark?

I was talking about Mark. Is it his responsibility to be positive and upbeat and constructive every second of every day, or risk being judged severely?

I think that when we are in a public arena, we need to be thoughtful of what we say. He could have responded privately.

I just found out about the peanut butter plan, and I think it's freakin' awesome.

Anybody can poke holes in an idea, especially "experts", such as the guy in the Change.org post. However, I've seen massive positive change happen when people's hearts are in the right place, and many an expert can be technically correct in his field, but simply wrong in practice. That guy (Dominic Mapstone) wrote his post from the point of view that only he truly knows what should happen. And that's a problem. Too many experts, not enough open hearts.

We are going to do this in our tiny town, as a family, as a 'social tithe' with some of our grocery money. I see hungry and down and out folks all the time who won't go to a shelter, and who would drink away any cash they were given. In fact, we gave a guy a couple of bananas yesterday who was in bad shape and needed some real food in his stomach. Some of these people aren't homeless, but they're damned hungry. And when I see a fellow human who is hungry, I'm going to try to feed him. My kids are going to learn and participate because they also care about people, even if we don't 'know' them.

Derek, I didn't get a chance to email you about this, but I found out about the Peanut Butter Plan through your post on Facebook. Thanks for spreading the word. I feel that doing something like this in a tiny town alleviates a lot of the concerns raised by Mark and Dominic. Would those fears be enough to stop you from doing this if you lived in a big city?

Nate - I guess I would evaluate that again if we did live in a big city, but as far as 'scary' homeless people go, I'm a big believer in the inherent goodness of people when you reach out to them with love in your heart. That has been my experience so far, anyway.

I do have the normal father fears and am protective of my children, but my experiences have led me to believe that most of my fears are only in my head. Unfortunately, it seems our society dwells on the 'possible' dangers and the fact is that risks are usually overblown. Having said that, I would never knowingly put my children in danger. There must be 'safe' ways to do this, even in a metropolis.

Keep up the good work, and keep us thinking through issues like this!

Cheers

Involving your kids is awesome! before you go shopping check this out

http://homelessness.change.org/blog/view/featur...

http://www.americancoinop.com/article.cfm?artic...

agreed changed heart is the first and most important start. But filling a real need and having real impact is also important

actually, it's the 80/20 rule that's the problem. 80% talking about doing something. 19% are doing what THEY think works best, and 1% is truly having an impact!

if feeding is your thing and that is where your heart is research your community and take the food to an organization that is helping people get off the streets. anything else is not a solution

I appreciate the links and see that laundry is a need for the homeless, as is gas and travel funds.

However, when I encountered the Peanut Butter Plan, I never saw a reference to the homeless - just the hungry. It's not on the pages at all. Maybe it's implied, but my thought was to help those who are hungry, homeless or not.

In 10 years of working in a downtown area in a medium sized city (with a mission and food kitchen), I saw plenty of people who were drinking their lunch (whether homeless or not) and who would hit me up for spare change. It got to the point that I started saying no, but I'll buy you lunch. Many of these people were too proud or too drunk to be served by the shelter, and some weren't homeless, but barely able to feed themselves. The reaction? "God bless you."

In the town I live now, there's a couple of guys who are always hanging outside the grocery store and asking for handouts. They are always grateful for food. And there isn't a mission or an organization for feeding the homeless here.

I appreciate the insights you've provided here, hardlynormal, and wish you the best in your endeavors. In fact, if you use Twitter, hit me up there (@derekmarkham) to help publicize your messages any time you need to. Cheers.

As long as the pand j doesnt have high frutose corn syrup in it, I dont think diabetes will run rampart in the streets...Anyone that does any good for the homeless is ok by me. The other guy is only trying 2 bring attention 2 himself and get a film deal. that will not help the overall health of the homeless. When a movie brings attention 2 problems,it is the movie that gets rewarded not the homeless.

Do you know he's just trying to get a film deal, or are you assuming that? I think we should be careful in assigning motive where there may not necessarily be one.

great comments all, especially cupcake's ;~)

the first step is always the most important. my advice is to actively get out there and do something. that seems to be our motto here. while you are 'doing it' you'll realize that there will be ways to do it better. when you are actually actively sincerely working toward making a difference by helping others and the environment you'll find more effective ways to help. i do think it's possibly to offer positive constructive criticism without being negative but to answer the original question "Is There A Wrong Way To Do Good Things?"... when we approach 'good things' with an open, caring heart, there is no ‘wrong way’.

one of our kids' mission ideas here in kodaikanal is to serve 'care packages' of lemon rice during the sunday market, not just to the homeless, but to anybody who wants a 'free lunch' with the assumption that everybody appreciates a care package and a smile.

I agree with you that we can indeed offer positive constructive criticism . . . I believe there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, we all need it in order to get better. Maybe Jory learned something from these interactions that helped him do his work more effectively - and that's part of it too. But you can't learn if you don't "do" in the first place. We all take our first steps, stumble and fall, and then take more, stronger steps.

You know I love what you and your kids do over there in India, man. Much love to you all.

I remember reading an article one time, about a 'pay it forward' act where one person paid for the coffee of the person behind them in a drive thru...As it turned out, that when on all day...What was upsetting, is that people where ripping apart the genuine premise of this simple act. People were say that there were better ways to spend your money..ect.

What I feel a lot of those people missed...is what a simple act of kindness can do for the giver, and the reciever. How that simple little act may have trickled into something more in the lives of those people...that may have spread to other acts of cherity.

We are so blind to the bigger picture...The person who suggestes the milk...should organize a group to go alone and give glasses of milk with the sandwhiches...which in turn would help for safty in numbers of volunteers...

It's so sad we have to attack the little acts of kindness we witness...when we could simply make it better.

as above, so below, the micro-cosm effects the macro, ordinary acts of kindness become extra-ordinary!

It's hard to comment on this - I've never been homeless so I have no idea what effect it would have on me being offered a sandwich. I guess the only way to know if this plan is helping in any way is to ask those who are receiving. From what I do hear from some of my friends working with people without homes - one of the biggest challenges they face is being seen as human beings - usually they are ignored by people with homes.

So the question (to them) might be - does the plan help them feel more noticed as a human being or less noticed?

Lack of milk? Is Horvath affiliated with the dairy industry in some way? I don't drink milk ever, many people don't or can't either. Horvath's comment appears ungracious and snippy to me. Jory John and Mark Horvath are probably both doing a very valuable service in their own way and should probably be supporting one another rather than making degrading comments in a public forum. If Horvath is concerned about the safety of the volunteers perhaps he could help educate Jory to find a safer way to offer food.

This is exactly why I wanted to discuss this topic, Janet. Horvath's comment DOES appear ungracious and snippy. Which is unfortunate, considering all he does for people in this area. And when I first read it, I was immediately turned off, and probably thought less of Mark than he deserved. But after thinking about it for a few minutes, I realized that there will come a time in all of our lives when we've been working forever and ever on something, and someone says something to us at the wrong time or in the wrong way, and in our weary and frustrated state of mind, we may just snap back in an irritable manner.

My question is, when that happens, is it really fair for legions of people to come to the conclusion that we're kind of a jerk? I don't think it's fair, but I think it's a tough thing to avoid . . . and I don't have a good solution, besides allowing people a large measure of grace, and asking for the same.

so laughing. never been called ungracious and snippy before.

Nate, I am not educated! i don't know how to write. i've lost everything - again! I've been unemployed longer than anyone you know. lost my house to foreclosure in May, and i just traveled 11,236 miles completely on my own looking into the eyes of people dying under bridges. I didn't go anywhere nice but into the most hurting poverty areas of our great country. In the middle of the trip the man that raised me died and I had to be with my family. http://hardlynormal.com/blog/2009/08/05/the-gre... the few days that i had scheduled for down time were lost so i could be with my mom. i did not stop nor did i take any real time for myself in 3 months of travel! i could go on and on but for one person to pull off what I did is a miracle! I am beyond exhausted!

maybe i over reacted to John's post, maybe i didn't! people are dying on the streets and that is getting worse every day. randomly feeding and encouraging others to do the same thing is not the best solution. if you judge me as a less of a person for being honest than I'll make you or anyone else this offer - come out with me for one hour. just one hour on Skid Row and then go make some sandwiches

it's an interesting 'debate'. how about we stop typing and start helping with housing and jobs. too me, this whole post had one purpose only and that is not to engage in open dialog but to instigate conflict

whether they are talking good or bad at least they are talking.

tomorrow, just like today, and as in all days I will spend it helping hurting people off the streets.

judge me all you want!

Interesting that only my replies show and not my main comment that better explains my reasoning

also interesting is you slam me and think less of me for using the word "horrible" yet many of the comments here are sarcastic, hurtful and completely way off base - and that's OK! no bias here!

Again - seems this post is more about instigating conflict than open communication

I wish you success with your blog.

Dude, he was defending you.

I was caught up in the "Vernonia Flood" of 2007. When you do not have anything to eat, food is food. Because of fibromyalgia, I literally can not eat cheese and red meat without getting sick. Yet the Red Cross dropped off sacks of cheese and meat sandwiches with apples. We lived off of ONLY this for a week. I nibbled slowly on this to not get sick. Water was delivered by the fire department. Roads were closed and we had no choice, but we lived through it OK and helped others in return when the roads opened up.

This being said, I do not believe criticism for helping others in any way is right. It is the thought that counts. I do agree though, that water at least should be given out with any type of food given. We ate food from the Red Cross with the apple being the only source of water for a couple days. It was very hard. Maybe this could be a lesson learned.

Cheers!

I can think of only one way trying to do good could be a bad thing. That is if you believe that the ends justify the means. If you take bad actions for a good cause, it still bad. No matter how good the cause. If you take good actions for a bad cause, you are still doing.

For your longer posts, you COULD put a tl;dr section at the start of the article after the introduction paragraph...it could be a box with a light bgcolor calling out a bulletpointed list of the major takeaways from the article.

Just a thought. :)

I really like the conversation here. To me, 'tone of voice' matters, even on the internet, but it shouldn't be the end of the story. It is east to say that the internet is a public space, and anyone who comments publicly is inviting criticism, but that doesn't let a reader off the hook for their share of responsibility to contribute to their community as well. Basically, it isn't enough to point out how other people should or shouldn't help the homeless, if your aren't contributing to the cause in some way.

In the world of do-gooders, there is always tension surrounding the-best-way-to-change-the-world, and unfortunately, that while that tension sometimes focus' people's efforts in a more streamlined, more effective manner, it sometimes just causes drama. If neither party is getting in the way of each others efforts, t doesn't seem like arguing over how best to reach out to an extremely under-served population is the best use of either of their time.

I too think both guys are doing wonderful things.

However, I believe that Mark Horvath should take a step back and realize that not everyone may have the verbal finesse or social graces to take on such a big task as raising awareness and talking about homelessness to others. Sometimes making a P&J sandwich, and handing it out is a form of communcation. And while it is very important to look at the big picture to find a way to eliminate homelessness and hunger in all of our communities, we do need a band-aid solution in the mean time. If that means handing out P&J sammies...then so be it. Food seems to be something that brings people together. Both guys are doing equally important things in the battle against homelessness and hunger...they should be patting each other on the back instead of making snide remarks. Just my thoughts...:)

I really like this comment, Melissa. Thanks.

This post raises a lot of really great questions that we don't really think of and a lot of really great responses as well.

I agree with foiledcupcakes' response when she said, "What Mark doesn't realize is that it's not the PBJ sandwich. It's what the PBJ symbolizes - the act of giving, allowing volunteers to experience the joy of serving others." I think Mark is losing the main point of Jory John's efforts here. Maybe Jory isn't doing everything right. Actually, I agree with Mark when he says that a better idea might be to join forces with an organization thats committed to a similar cause. That would probably be more effective. But I think what bothers me most and gets me here is the fact that it was called a "horrible idea". I don't know...I'm an active believer in CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and I guess the way a lot of things that were phrased weren't very positive. It's obvious that Jory's heart is in the right place and that should be encouraged...

Anyway, also wanted to say that Mark's vision is absolutely amazing. To raise awareness and share these stories is really the first and most necessary step to eliminating these problems...

you are awesome! written communication is not my forte'. heck, I'm just loud and pushy. :) at this point i just traveled the country and I met people who are dying. you are right, John is a good guy and at least he is taking action. you are also right that the use of the word "horrible" may not have been a good choice. but i don't know how to effectively communicate people are dying on the streets, there are lots of great people with huge hearts taking real actions that have very little impact. too me, that is horrible.

i honestly wish i knew how to communicate better. i also come from the streets myself and often forget that people sometimes don't understand my being so blunt. please forgive me that i often use the wrong words

Mark, thanks so much for the reply and I understand the whole problem with being so blunt. I'm the same way sometimes and boy, have I gotten some serious flack from being so. You said yourself that there are lots of people with huge hearts taking real action that have very little impact...maybe the problem is the lack of understanding and information on how exactly to make a difference. I know there are a lot of people out there who want to help, myself included...but how to start? where to start? Heck, even the biggest nonprofit organizations out there are not getting it right...always offering band aid solutions to problems so much bigger and deeper than that. So I guess, it's important that widespread information be made available out there to show people how to go and make real, concrete differences.

This is a fascinating discussion, Nate, thanks for getting the conversation started (and keeping it going). I can see this situation from both perspectives, and both have merit, so I'll just share a couple of thoughts.

To me, one thing missing from the equation is community voice. It’s hard to differentiate, sometimes, between what WE think would be helpful to the people we want to serve versus what THEY think would be helpful. I like to encourage volunteers to talk with the people they hope to help to find out what they want (or need).

If it’s a school, for example, maybe the volunteers think that the children want a playground. When they speak with the children, however, maybe they discover that the children want books, or games, or art supplies, or music, or even mentors. It may be more fun to build a playground, and certainly the kids would enjoy it, but it may serve their needs better to provide them with what they want.

The same applies to people who are homeless. Maybe we want to make them a certain kind of sandwich, because it’s easy and fun. Maybe they’d prefer a different type of sandwich, or soup, or fresh fruit. Maybe they’d like something completely different. Perhaps you don’t have the resources to get them what they need, but can you find the resources? And sure, you can’t make everyone happy all the time, but having the conversation is a good place to start.

I know someone is going to say, but what if a person who is homeless says they want a home? To me, it’s okay to set reasonable limits around the conversation. It also might be interesting to approach it with an open mind – the place where so many creative and innovative ideas are born.

The second point I’d like to raise is that everyone is someplace different on the “spectrum of service”. Some people are barely involved while others are volunteers and still others are social activists (and there are many shades in between). To complicate things further, their positions change depending on the social issue you’re discussing.

I think you need to meet people wherever they are, and encourage them. Offer them support, advice, assistance, resources and suggestions. Empower them to move along the spectrum, if that’s what they’d like to do. Help them celebrate their successes and learn from their mistakes and move forward. Judging them is counterproductive, for both the individual and the issue. I know how hard and frustrating it can be to believe strongly in an issue and to see people approaching it what you think is “the wrong direction” over and over again. You can’t force them to change their mind, but you can keep an open mind and engage them in conversation. Who knows? Maybe they are seeing something that you missed. We all have something to offer, and we all have something to learn. I think Mark and Jory could learn a lot from each other. :)

Thanks again, Nate!

A list of some of the reasons why Jory John should be voted "The Worst Human Being on the Planet":

1. He has the nerve to consider someone other than himself
2. He has the audacity to circumvent bureaucratic bull by going straight to those in need and offering help
3. He seems to think that offering a meal to someone who is hungry is a decent thing to do

Seriously, why haven't we tarred and feathered this guy already??? Such an obvious menace to society!

I appreciate and support the 'teach a man to fish' mentality behind "Instead of feeding, support an organization that’s making a difference." However, I can see beyond that to understand that hunger is a basic need. It's irresponsible of this person (who is probably not in need of one of John's PB&J sandwiches) to disregard how difficult and physically painful it is to be hungry.

I am one of those "suckers" who will gladly buy someone a meal if she says that she needs it. I can just as easily tell this person to go to a shelter, but this person may not even make it there to get this meal and the additional services. It seems extreme, but I don't want someone's death on my conscience. Why would I wait to get a tax write off for a cause that I can help with now?

Just my .02 cents!

@everythingiric

I asked a few people currently living without permanent housing what they thought of this post

RT: @hardlynormal @carcamper #homeless http://bit.ly/v5d6v what ya think? Comment: Right On. Food was never a problem. A $5 gas voucher was!

http://twitter.com/carcamper/status/5058966422

Because you've asked me already whether I've read this before commenting, I'll post here. It'll be a considerably longer comment than 140 chars on Twitter. ..

I agree the original question is interesting also. "Is there a wrong way to do good things?" Absolutely. There are many wrong ways of trying to achieve a good result. Ask any firefighter or other emergency services first responder. The article's closing statement poses a slightly different question - Should valid, constructive criticism "be reason enough to stop kind-hearted people from doing what is obviously a good thing in and of itself?" Well, I don't think constructive criticism or comments are ever meant to stop an activity, but they can certainly be intended to influence people and modify behaviors. So I'd say yes, even though kind-hearted people may have good intentions, it's valid to attempt to make them stop and think first.

I'm glad to see Mark's comment here - "I am NOT saying don’t feed people - I am saying DO NOT go and randomly feed homeless. It has little impact. Work as a team with your community and ALWAYS provide some kind of case management. ...".

I support Mark's comments on the original John Jory article and his detailed review at homelessness.change.org - he's right: encouraging unsupervised volunteerism out on the streets is naive, irresponsible and dangerous. I am a front-line outreach worker to the homeless in Toronto. I've trained and hosted thousands of volunteers over the years who hand out PB&J sandwiches (and other choices) to homeless people on the streets after dark (more than 10 years myself, and almost 20 years since our organization first started). I should be as offended by Mark's comments as anyone - except that I see the wisdom of his warnings. He's already done a great job of outlining his opposition, I don't need to repeat it - but I will add my own experiences

* Several cities and municipalities have outright banned delivering food to people who are homeless. You've seen the news reports. Their reason for doing so is flawed (and probably unconstitutional) but the fact remains, they see feeding hungry people as "enabling" and counter-productive. Even where the practice is not banned, relationships between city councils and homelessness nonprofits could be strained already. In Toronto, where we serve, the city issued notice to nonprofits already receiving city funding (we don't) to cease outdoor meals or face losing funding. They stopped. Fact is, the actions of a few well meaning, kind-hearted individuals could affect homeless services city wide. As an organization we are equipped to deal with ongoing city discussions regarding the criminalization of homelessness.

* What Mark called "case management" is critical. A couple of untrained, inexperienced people relying on the buddy system are just plain ill equipped for many of the types of encounters we have on the street. Many of our homeless friends have serious health challenges, both physical and mental. Does the PB&J program instruct volunteers how to deal with an agressive, bi-polar personality who thinks everything you say and do has a threatening ulterior motive? Do you know where to refer them? or who to call? Do you lay a sandwich down next to that sleeping, homeless person? What if they are not sleeping, but unconscious and unresponsive? How do you react when that person jonesin' for their next fix takes the day's frustrations (and their withdrawal symptoms) out on you? Naive and dangerous indeed. Do you ask them if they want some "food"? So do half the crack dealers in this city: "Food" is their code for crack cocaine, they're already standing on the street corners asking if people are "hungry". Not everyone on the street is homeless.

* All of my street friends tell me they have gotten sick from eating food from well meaning individuals. Granted PB&J has staying power, but where are the sandwiches prepared and when? Who handled them? Will the person eat it right away? And there is a definite need for more than a sandwich. The need for a beverage is critical - dehydration is one of the main issues on the street, not suggesting water or fruit juice is irresponsible. Worse than the sugar in PB&J is the salt. Many of my friends out there say, "please can I just have a water or juice?".

* I've seen groups of upwards of fifty youth, young 13-14 yr old teens, traipsing through crack central with only one lone adult counsellor leading the pack - "dangerous"?. On Friday nights in Toronto, these groups, usually church groups, leave behind them a wake of sleeping homeless people with sandwiches literally piled on top of them. Nobody has taken the time to see if that person needs anything else, or of they are even breathing!.

*Our outreach is actually not about the meal. No one in this city will go hungry due to homelessness - there are an abundance of meal programs at numerous shelter locations around the city. Even if there are not in your city or town, your zeal for volunteerism would be better served helping start one, stocking a food bank, or by supporting other existing charities - try building a house for Habitat or Fuller for instance. For us, the snack is just a calling card. Volunteers help us create a bridge of trust that allows the case management to begin and act as a a gateway to other programs we operate which can help them find a place to live, receive treatment and counseling and provides a positive way for staff like me to be out on the street much more often and develop positive relationships.

People have asked, "Well, what do we do when we encounter people who are homeless? Do we just pass by empty handed? Isn't a PB&J better than nothing?". If you feel that way, then take the next step to make sure your actions make a real difference. Droppin a 25 cent sammie may make you feel better, but don't our homeless friends deserve more? I have a final question. Why not just give that homeless person some money? A dollar, two, five or even ten bucks. Tell them they can go and have a good meal somewhere. Oh, I can hear the howls of protest: "But they'll just buy drugs, cigarettes or booze!" - and doesn't that reveal the judgment we've already laid on them? Does your boss tell you how and where to spend your paycheck? Did that twenty bucks you got for Christmas come with a post-it attached that said "No Alcohol"? A smile and a friendly word is far more effective, I know - my homeless friends tell me. Better yet, donate that cash and your volunteer hours to organizations that are already working hard to effect change. Let's start treating the homeless as the valuable community members they already are - see the potential within and work to set it free. Peanuts are for the zoo.

Thanks for your forum and article, see you in the twitterverse -

canayjun

Hey Andy, I really enjoyed reading this comment (which was really an entire article in and of itself). Thank you for spending so much of your time and effort to help us understand more about the homelessness situation from someone on the front lines. Honestly, between you and Mark and Shannon, I know that I've learned more about this topic in the last day than I have in my entire life so far . . . and I hope my readers have as well.

One thing that jumped out at me was your "howls of protest" line . . . I feel the same way. Who are we to instantly judge and stereotype people based on their situation, and refuse to directly help financially? I understand that it can be a tough question, because I'm sure cash is often used in a way that's not beneficial, but the overly cynical attitude of most people on that subject is troubling.

I have a question that hopefully you or Mark could help me out with. I will freely admit that my passion for changing the world does not center around the problem of homelessness. So I'm probably not going to take that "next step" you talk about anytime soon. But I do live in a big city, and occasionally am approached by a homeless person asking for money. Sometimes I give, and sometimes I don't. But the problem is, it's not consistent, because I don't really know the best course of action in that situation. I want to be helpful and show that I do care, but I want to make sure to do it in an appropriate way. Any suggestions for me and my readers?

Thanks,
Nate

it's not the sandwich, it's the thought. I mean, it needs to start somewhere. what if it's everything this person can give, does that make him a lesser person just because he can't give more? i guess not.

for me, the mere thought that a person initiated an action that is not self-serving is reason enough for me to admire his capabilities. If that's all he can give, then my gratitude still goes to him.